Dude, I love Big Lebowski. Love it, love it, love it. But I guess I don't have a grasp on what you are considering "the classics." I guess it doesn't have anything to do with era or date of release, because The Dude is only 10 years old. Matter of fact, Best in Show is the only first-round victor that is more recent than Lebowski (Something About Mary came out in '98 as well). So how do you define "classics"?
I contend that BL was an instant classic, at the very least in a "cult classic" sense. What Gen X male doesn't have a little of The Dude in him (or secretly want to)?
I totally agree with the idea of "instant classics," and I agree that TBL was one. But if a movie doesn't have to age, so to speak, to be considered a classic, then that makes the concept of classics all the more subjective. Based on that, I'd contend that the majority of films that made this bracket can be considered classics.
I saw parts of Something About Mary...never the whole movie in its entirety. But the parts I saw certainly didn't entice me into seeing the whole movie, so I would vote that not only isn't it a classic, it wasn't even that good.
I thought it was fine when we saw it (TSAM) in the theater but I wouldn't exactly seek it out again, which is why I picked Rushmore in round 1.
As to why no Lebowski, well, I've never caught it on TV and missed it in the theater. It is on my Netflix list. We just sent one back and I have A Man For All Seasons here. Just checked my list & Capote is in transit.
Lebowski is at #92 in my queue. I take it I should move it up?
I would move it up...it is so warped, but literally my husband fell off the couch laughing a few times. Either we are complete morons, or it really is that funny.
Yes, absolutely move it up. And it's one of those superbly crafted flicks that bears several watchings.
Watch it once. Then watch The Big Sleep. Then watch BL again. Then one more time, then you can send it back, cuz you'll probably go out and buy it after that :-)
And I'm not even remotely embarrassed to say that Something About Mary had me laughing so hard my stomach hurt. I've seen it a half-dozen times, and it's one of those rare movies I can watch more than once and still laugh. Matt Dillon is fucking priceless in that movie. So yeah, I'd consider it a modern classic.
So you see class, a "classic" is a movie Looney likes. Homework: please copy out the definitions of "dreck" and "mindless" from your Official Film Freaks Lexicon, in preparation for our next lesson, Movies Looney Doesn't Like.
I love TSAM as well, in all its low-brow, nostril-milking, sight-gagging glory. And I am not ashamed to say I chose it all the way to the semis. FTR, the jizz-in-the-hair gag (!) was about the lamest thing in the film.
I'd be interested to see the overall ranking that The Commish gave it.
But hey, if fucking pies and jizz in the hair does it for you, more power to ya...
Now now, all in good time. We're doing "Ways in Which Looney is Smarter Than You" and "How Your Taste in Movies Proves You to be Hopelessly Inbred Trash" next week.
But FTR, I hate American Pie. :) I too thought Matt Dillon was pretty funny in Mary, and raised what was otherwise pretty standard stuff. I'd say it's middlin' ranking was about right, Jefe, IMO.
American Pie wasn't in this tournament, so I'm not sure how it became a point of reference for this debate. But for FTR, I loved American Pie. I'm sure the fact that it was written by a friend of my sister's and was entirely based on my high school had something to do with it, but I'd put it on the same plane I do Porky's or Superbad -- really funny hight school just-wanna-get-laid humor.
The frustrating part wasn't what people voted for from what they did see, but rather that cutting edge, top of their genre, timeless films were dumped due to unfamiliarity and ignorance.
There are a lot of films here I haven't seen and I voted for them regardless (Lebowski being one). In any case, I picked for what I liked, not "what does everyone else think I should vote for?" Gosh, I thought we were just having fun.
Now now, all in good time. We're doing "Ways in Which Looney is Smarter Than You" and "How Your Taste in Movies Proves You to be Hopelessly Inbred Trash" next week.
delete-delete-delete I repost this to avoid using the opening line I orignally penned because I don't want to talk to a friend that way, however, for the rest of my previously deleted comment:
But for the sake of explaining myself to you, which I did not do previously because I assumed I am not smarter than you, or anyone else here for that matter, listen up.
It's not about smarter or not, it's about ignorance being a point of judgment, and about a lack of recognition of the artistry of a film vs. its yuk factor. I would imagine I actually laughed more "times" watching Something About Mary than I did a Night at the Opera, or Modern Times, or Rushmore, for that matter. That doesn't make it a better movie. That just means they came up with more yuks to jam in there.
The frustrating part wasn't what people voted for from what they did see, but rather that cutting edge, top of their genre, timeless films were dumped due to unfamiliarity and ignorance. Ignorance being, of course, not having seen the film, not a commentary on the intelligence of the voter.
It's you and others on this board who turned this into a stupid vs. smart argument, or a You didn't pick what I liked argument. That's what doesn't make any sense
I'll admit I put up a little fuss over Something About Mary vs. Rushmore, but I'll bet dollars to fucking donuts that's because at least twice as many people on this board saw TSAM than saw Rushmore. In which case ignorance wins again.
So please try to get back into the actual argument rather than defending your own wounded psyche and we'll go back to being buds, 'kay?
What I think came off as the most offensive, or at least judgmental, Looney, is the assumption that certain movies lost because of ignorance. The idea that, if everyone had seen a certain movie, there's no way it would have lost, comes off as elitist and arrogant (note I said "comes off as," which presumes that wasn't the intention). As I've said, I'm a huge Marx Brothers fan. But I know plenty of people who don't find Marx Brothers movies entertaining or funny in the least. It's a certain brand of humor that doesn't appeal to everyone. Mad Mad World falls into that camp, as do many other movies in this tournament. Oh well. I might think someone's missing out, but it's personal taste. Nothing wrong with that at all.
There's been a pretty serious decline in comments on this tournament (this thread excepted), and that's due in large part because of people feeling chastised and ridiculed for their movie choices. That bums me out, and it flies in the face of the intention of March Movie Madness. Debating the merits of movies can be fun and entertaining, and yes, even heated, but when it crosses into the realm of personal insult, shit, you can get that in about any thread on about any blog. I'd hoped we'd be able to avoid that here. And man, I know you were halfway joking, but if this becomes misc.writing, I'll say "see ya" right now. I got no desire whatsoever to drown in that cesspool ever again.
I feel loved and fully embraced for my movie choices ;) Just as there is a lid for every pot, there is a fan for every genre, whether it creates a chuckle, bit of a snicker, slight guffaw or huge, huge belly laugh.
And us freaks have Jefe at this helm of the annual madness, spending loads of time an energy putting it all together. That's entertainment baby.
I feel loved and fully embraced for my movie choices ;)
Clearly, it is time for us all to gang up on Jodie.
Ok, Jefe, lets talk about the actual movies. I don't actually find the Marx Brothers funny. I realize that what they did was innovative for their time, and don't debate their status, but there's been some talk about how we made our decisions, and mine were based not on how good/original/well-made I thought the movie was, but how funny. Therefore Duck Soup (which I assure one and all I have seen) didn't make it that far in my bracket.
IOW, comedy was my focus. If you want to do groundbreakers instead of comedy, fine, I'll give you the Marx Bros. Grudgingly. I mean, A&C are soooo much funnier.
And I'm sorry I used that sort of talk toward you.
Forgot to add, Looney, there's no need for this, but thanks. For my part I only meant to poke you gently, and meant no offense. With all due respect to Jefe, this is, um, March Movie Madness. It's not, you know, keeping me up nights.
Eden and I were discussing earlier how we chose our movies. I picked the movies that I enjoyed the most and made me laugh the loudest. If a movie makes me laugh out loud and I want to watch it over and over, and has excellent quotable dialog (The Big Lebowski, Moonstruck, The Princess Bride, When Harry Met Sally, Life of Brian, Holy Grail, Stripes, Young Frankenstein, etc.) It doesn't matter to me whether the movie's in color or B&W, how artistic it is, how cutting edge it is. What matters, with a comedy, is whether it makes me laugh.
44 comments:
I have so many hits on FFFC because I can't WAIT to see these posted ;) I'm a bit obsessed.
Thanks, Jefe!
Oh well, looks like all my marbles are going in the Graaaail.
The Dude totally kicks MASH's arse... someone's on crack...
But MASH is a classic...
Yes, but so is BL, which is far more innovative and interesting...
I can't believe you people fucked with The Jesus. The Big Lebowski totally kicks M*A*S*H's ass.
Dude, I love Big Lebowski. Love it, love it, love it. But I guess I don't have a grasp on what you are considering "the classics." I guess it doesn't have anything to do with era or date of release, because The Dude is only 10 years old. Matter of fact, Best in Show is the only first-round victor that is more recent than Lebowski (Something About Mary came out in '98 as well). So how do you define "classics"?
I've never seen Lebowski.
*hides*
"I've never seen Lebowski."
Why?
Classics is not *just* old. It's quality. It's innovation. It's art with humor. It's timelessness.
There's something to the idea of an instant classic. BL wasn't *so* instant, I suppose, but it's certainly recognizable now...
I contend that BL was an instant classic, at the very least in a "cult classic" sense. What Gen X male doesn't have a little of The Dude in him (or secretly want to)?
I totally agree with the idea of "instant classics," and I agree that TBL was one. But if a movie doesn't have to age, so to speak, to be considered a classic, then that makes the concept of classics all the more subjective. Based on that, I'd contend that the majority of films that made this bracket can be considered classics.
Something About Mary isn't even remotely a "classic"...
I saw parts of Something About Mary...never the whole movie in its entirety. But the parts I saw certainly didn't entice me into seeing the whole movie, so I would vote that not only isn't it a classic, it wasn't even that good.
duck and cover
I thought it was fine when we saw it (TSAM) in the theater but I wouldn't exactly seek it out again, which is why I picked Rushmore in round 1.
As to why no Lebowski, well, I've never caught it on TV and missed it in the theater. It is on my Netflix list. We just sent one back and I have A Man For All Seasons here. Just checked my list & Capote is in transit.
Lebowski is at #92 in my queue. I take it I should move it up?
I would move it up...it is so warped, but literally my husband fell off the couch laughing a few times. Either we are complete morons, or it really is that funny.
Yes, move it up. We quote it almost daily around here. Move it up to right after Capote (which was excellent, by the way).
Yes, absolutely move it up. And it's one of those superbly crafted flicks that bears several watchings.
Watch it once. Then watch The Big Sleep. Then watch BL again. Then one more time, then you can send it back, cuz you'll probably go out and buy it after that :-)
Eden, move Lebowski up to #1.
And I'm not even remotely embarrassed to say that Something About Mary had me laughing so hard my stomach hurt. I've seen it a half-dozen times, and it's one of those rare movies I can watch more than once and still laugh. Matt Dillon is fucking priceless in that movie. So yeah, I'd consider it a modern classic.
All that said, I'd have still voted for Rushmore.
So you see class, a "classic" is a movie Looney likes. Homework: please copy out the definitions of "dreck" and "mindless" from your Official Film Freaks Lexicon, in preparation for our next lesson, Movies Looney Doesn't Like.
I love TSAM as well, in all its low-brow, nostril-milking, sight-gagging glory. And I am not ashamed to say I chose it all the way to the semis. FTR, the jizz-in-the-hair gag (!) was about the lamest thing in the film.
I'd be interested to see the overall ranking that The Commish gave it.
And yet the jizz in the hair still made me laugh.
The Commish put it in slot #32. Right smack dab in the middle.
Wotever Tea... I probably don't have to explain, and in fact don't feel obligated to explain, why your comment doesn't make sense.
But hey, if fucking pies and jizz in the hair does it for you, more power to ya...
your comment doesn't make sense.
But hey, if fucking pies and jizz in the hair does it for you, more power to ya...
Now now, all in good time. We're doing "Ways in Which Looney is Smarter Than You" and "How Your Taste in Movies Proves You to be Hopelessly Inbred Trash" next week.
But FTR, I hate American Pie. :) I too thought Matt Dillon was pretty funny in Mary, and raised what was otherwise pretty standard stuff. I'd say it's middlin' ranking was about right, Jefe, IMO.
American Pie wasn't in this tournament, so I'm not sure how it became a point of reference for this debate. But for FTR, I loved American Pie. I'm sure the fact that it was written by a friend of my sister's and was entirely based on my high school had something to do with it, but I'd put it on the same plane I do Porky's or Superbad -- really funny hight school just-wanna-get-laid humor.
American Pie = Recognizable brand of movie humor, of which TSAM is a part...
Just for the record:
The frustrating part wasn't what people voted for from what they did see, but rather that cutting edge, top of their genre, timeless films were dumped due to unfamiliarity and ignorance.
There are a lot of films here I haven't seen and I voted for them regardless (Lebowski being one). In any case, I picked for what I liked, not "what does everyone else think I should vote for?" Gosh, I thought we were just having fun.
Gosh, I thought we were just having fun.
We are... misc.writing style... :-)
Now now, all in good time. We're doing "Ways in Which Looney is Smarter Than You" and "How Your Taste in Movies Proves You to be Hopelessly Inbred Trash" next week.
delete-delete-delete I repost this to avoid using the opening line I orignally penned because I don't want to talk to a friend that way, however, for the rest of my previously deleted comment:
But for the sake of explaining myself to you, which I did not do previously because I assumed I am not smarter than you, or anyone else here for that matter, listen up.
It's not about smarter or not, it's about ignorance being a point of judgment, and about a lack of recognition of the artistry of a film vs. its yuk factor. I would imagine I actually laughed more "times" watching Something About Mary than I did a Night at the Opera, or Modern Times, or Rushmore, for that matter. That doesn't make it a better movie. That just means they came up with more yuks to jam in there.
The frustrating part wasn't what people voted for from what they did see, but rather that cutting edge, top of their genre, timeless films were dumped due to unfamiliarity and ignorance. Ignorance being, of course, not having seen the film, not a commentary on the intelligence of the voter.
It's you and others on this board who turned this into a stupid vs. smart argument, or a You didn't pick what I liked argument. That's what doesn't make any sense
I'll admit I put up a little fuss over Something About Mary vs. Rushmore, but I'll bet dollars to fucking donuts that's because at least twice as many people on this board saw TSAM than saw Rushmore. In which case ignorance wins again.
So please try to get back into the actual argument rather than defending your own wounded psyche and we'll go back to being buds, 'kay?
delete-delete-delete I repost this to avoid using the opening line I orignally penned because I don't want to talk to a friend that way
Too late, I'd already read it. Neener neener I declare victory boo.
Damn... Well, I'll claim moral victory for pretending to admit I was wrong to say it, 'kay?
And I'm sorry I used that sort of talk toward you.
What I think came off as the most offensive, or at least judgmental, Looney, is the assumption that certain movies lost because of ignorance. The idea that, if everyone had seen a certain movie, there's no way it would have lost, comes off as elitist and arrogant (note I said "comes off as," which presumes that wasn't the intention). As I've said, I'm a huge Marx Brothers fan. But I know plenty of people who don't find Marx Brothers movies entertaining or funny in the least. It's a certain brand of humor that doesn't appeal to everyone. Mad Mad World falls into that camp, as do many other movies in this tournament. Oh well. I might think someone's missing out, but it's personal taste. Nothing wrong with that at all.
There's been a pretty serious decline in comments on this tournament (this thread excepted), and that's due in large part because of people feeling chastised and ridiculed for their movie choices. That bums me out, and it flies in the face of the intention of March Movie Madness. Debating the merits of movies can be fun and entertaining, and yes, even heated, but when it crosses into the realm of personal insult, shit, you can get that in about any thread on about any blog. I'd hoped we'd be able to avoid that here. And man, I know you were halfway joking, but if this becomes misc.writing, I'll say "see ya" right now. I got no desire whatsoever to drown in that cesspool ever again.
I feel loved and fully embraced for my movie choices ;) Just as there is a lid for every pot, there is a fan for every genre, whether it creates a chuckle, bit of a snicker, slight guffaw or huge, huge belly laugh.
And us freaks have Jefe at this helm of the annual madness, spending loads of time an energy putting it all together. That's entertainment baby.
I feel loved and fully embraced for my movie choices ;)
Clearly, it is time for us all to gang up on Jodie.
Ok, Jefe, lets talk about the actual movies. I don't actually find the Marx Brothers funny. I realize that what they did was innovative for their time, and don't debate their status, but there's been some talk about how we made our decisions, and mine were based not on how good/original/well-made I thought the movie was, but how funny. Therefore Duck Soup (which I assure one and all I have seen) didn't make it that far in my bracket.
IOW, comedy was my focus. If you want to do groundbreakers instead of comedy, fine, I'll give you the Marx Bros. Grudgingly. I mean, A&C are soooo much funnier.
And I'm sorry I used that sort of talk toward you.
Forgot to add, Looney, there's no need for this, but thanks. For my part I only meant to poke you gently, and meant no offense. With all due respect to Jefe, this is, um, March Movie Madness. It's not, you know, keeping me up nights.
Am I the only one who is amused by level of vitriol that's being displayed whilst discussing comedies?
Eden and I were discussing earlier how we chose our movies. I picked the movies that I enjoyed the most and made me laugh the loudest. If a movie makes me laugh out loud and I want to watch it over and over, and has excellent quotable dialog (The Big Lebowski, Moonstruck, The Princess Bride, When Harry Met Sally, Life of Brian, Holy Grail, Stripes, Young Frankenstein, etc.) It doesn't matter to me whether the movie's in color or B&W, how artistic it is, how cutting edge it is. What matters, with a comedy, is whether it makes me laugh.
This comment number is the same as my age.
And this is the same as mine.
Insert your Grumpy Old Men joke here.
Am I comment 42? 'Nuff said ;)
We need to get a bunch more comments going here so Sour Grapes can post one for his age. I mean a BUNCH more.
Does Blogger have that much bandwidth?
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